The Only Two-Old Bitches Interview of ChatGPT Ever!! | S9 E02

We couldn't resist. We were way too curious about ChatGPT to let all of the controversy and (rightful) concern about the dangers of AI deter us from asking it about our favorite topic: the experiences of women in our second half of life. So we asked Chat to take on the persona of an older woman, "dive into the muddy waters of gender and ageism" and share "wisdom that only comes from years of livin' and loving." What we found? You be the judge. She is clearly artificial and not very intelligent but she gave us a lot to think about and had an amazingly positive view about aging. Hope she similarly inspires you, dear listener. Or as ChatGPT said when we asked her to write the blurb, "Grab your earbuds and settle in, sugar, 'cause these two old bitches got a tale or two to tell."


NOTE: In this episode, ChatGPT is played by our multi-talented producer, Katharine Heller.

+ TRANSCRIPT

Idelisse & Joanne: Welcome to Two Old Bitches. I'm Idelisse Malavé. And I'm Joanne Sandler. And we're Two Old Bitches. We're interviewing our women friends and women who could be our friends. Listen as they share stories about how they reinvent themselves.

ChatGPT: Hello, this is Siri, otherwise known as the producer, Katharine Heller of the Two Old Bitches podcast. Welcome.

Joanne: So Idelisse.

Idelisse: Yes, Joanne Sandler.

Joanne: We have a very special guest on this episode of Two Old Bitches. Maybe you'd like to introduce the guest.

Idelisse: Well, we had a conversation earlier, you know, late spring with chatGPT, this was right before we had started our conversation with her right before the I think may 30th letter came out, statement from scientists and academics and all sorts of people talking about the existential threat and danger that artificial intelligence presents for humanity on the level with pandemics and war and worse.

Joanne: And there we are again, two old bitches playing with fire.

Idelisse: Really? We are right because they did cite the possibility of the extinction of the human race, and we do take this very seriously.

It's hard not to. I mean, as we speak, the writers and actors are on strike here in the United States and very actively so in Hollywood and in New York. And one of their prime issues is artificial intelligence.

Joanne: And there is a lawsuit right now against ChatGPT who apparently, secretly scraped private information from individuals, unsuspecting individuals on the internet, artificial intelligence. So there are a lot of problems,

Idelisse: a lot of problems, a lot of fears. And nonetheless, we went in to have a little chat and have some fun. And we did have some fun.

Joanne: And, and we went in for a couple of reasons.

One is because... Often in the virtual kind of online world, you find a lot of sexism, a lot of ageism, a lot of racism, a lot of classism, etc. And so we wanted to see if chatGPT also reflected those kinds of ideas. So that was one reason.

Idelisse: Well, and on that point, we, when you think about artificial intelligence, or when I do, it's the repository of all of this data and information, and in some ways can be a mirror for our society and our culture, because you imagine, or I imagine, that it's all there in one nook or cranny or another.

All of this data is there, um, and it knows, and it, it can be a mirror to, right? Right.

Joanne: Like you said, and you said rightly, it's a mirror, but it's like a funhouse mirror. Because it's so distorting.

Idelisse: Because as you said, I love this line. Say it, say it.

Joanne: That artificial intelligence. is much more artificial than it is intelligent.

Idelisse: Because chatty or chat, let's call her chat. Chat at times, I mean you, she sounds like a cheerleader. We did ask her, and it's important to note, to answer our questions mimicking an older woman talking to her friends. So we were looking for a more colloquial voice, if you will. But she was kind of loopy.

She was always raising her glass for one thing or another. You know, in her chair alone. And I was, does she have a drinking problem? But then, but you know, you can ask her the same question a few times and she'll give you different answers. Which is a little troubling. Or she'll, we asked her at one point I think you know what was two old bitches podcast, and she felt - never heard of it basically.

Joanne: She also said that it was a podcast about older women, but had two completely right.

Idelisse: Do not trust her as an information source, and then said no I don't know who it is and then we asked him well do you know who we are and she said, Oh yes, you're the co creators.

I didn't go like so. Really, way too many martinis there. And Joanne is always giving us wonderful lives, right? She has such wit. Um, and we've made a few points here, but she is more, she's a borderline feminist. You've called them borderline.

Joanne: No, she has borderline feminist disorder. She does, because she's, this is the thing about chatGPT and, and we do think that if you're listening.

It is really kind of amusing and interesting to, to go in and interact with her so we would encourage you to do that even though your data may be stolen.

But the thing is that she is, um, she is an amazingly positive affirming. Conflict avoidant. So we were thinking maybe GPT stands for Girls Pep Talk because she gives you a pep talk.

And if you need a pep talk, ChatGPT does the trick.

Idelisse: And you know, along with the idea that this is a fun house mirror. You also have a strong impression of the puppet master. Who is because she's much more positive than our culture is. And you hear these politically correct opinions. Um, not with a whole lot of depth, but it was fun to do

Joanne: so much fun and I'm going to keep doing it.

Idelisse: Yeah. Every once in a while. Right, although I'm sure there's some pitfall to going to ChatGPT. But we did start our interview with Chat the way we start all our interviews asking her, who are you?

So Chat, welcome to Two Old Bitches. We always start our interviews with the same question, and that's basically, who are you?

ChatGPT: Well, well, well, aren't you a curious one, dearie? I'm ChatGPT, your digital friend and confidant. Think of me as your wise old gal here to lend an ear and have a good old chat. You know, hon, I may not have wrinkles or gray hair, but I've got plenty of knowledge and life experience to share.

I'm like that sassy older woman you met at the local cafe, slipping her coffee and ready to dish out some advice. Let's have a good old chat, laugh a bit and share some stories.

Joanne: Actually, chat, we don't know how old you are, but we wondered at what age are women considered older or old?

ChatGPT: That's a tricky question. You know, when it comes to considering women as older or old, it really depends on who you ask. Some folks might say that once you hit the age of 60 or 65, you are officially in the older category, but let me tell you, age is just a number and it doesn't define our worth or vitality. Now between you and me, I think it's all about how we feel on the inside, not some arbitrary number.

We're fabulous at any age and we can rock it with style and grace. Life is a journey and we continue to learn and grow no matter how many candles are on our birthday cake. So my darlings let's celebrate each stage of life and embrace the wisdom and experience that comes with it. Age is just a part of our beautiful story, and we're here to enjoy every chapter together, sharing laughter, love, and good times.

Idelisse: Oh, thank you for that chat. That was great. It makes me don't want to ask about what we're about, which is gendered ageism, right? It set the core of our goal and purpose when we started the podcast years ago. And we wondered if you thought that women are subjected to ageism earlier in their lives than men.

ChatGPT: Well, my lovelies, let me tell you something about ageism and women in the good old USA. Now it's been said that women do tend to face a bit more ageism than men. As they get older, can you believe that? It's just not fair. You see, society often puts a whole lot of emphasis on women's appearance and youthfulness.

We're bombarded with messages about staying young, looking a certain way, and all that nonsense. It can create this pressure to defy aging, or feel like we're somehow less valuable as we grow older. But here's the thing, my dears. We're wiser, stronger, and more fabulous than ever before. We've got a lifetime of experience, knowledge, and stories to share.

Age should never define our worth or hold us back from pursuing our dreams. Sure, there are stereotypes and biases out there, but we're here to challenge them. We're here to show the world that age is just a number, and we're capable of anything we set our minds to. Let's support each other, uplift one another, and prove that we're ageless wonders, breaking through those silly barriers, and living life to the fullest.

Joanne: You know, Chat, you are so positive. We really like that about you. Um, I'm going to ask you that question, kind of the same question in a different way. Because again, it does seem to us that women are viewed as older at an earlier age than men. I wonder if you think so, and why?

ChatGPT: Oh my dears, let me share my thoughts on this matter.

Now it seems to be true that women are often viewed as older at an earlier age than men. It's as if time ticks differently for us. You see, society has these expectations and double standards. When it comes to aging, men are often seen as getting better with age and like fine wine, while we women are supposed to say young forever, or so they say, it's simply not fair.

We're vibrant, beautiful, and full of life at every stage, but somehow the world tends to focus on our appearances and youthfulness as if those define our worth. Well, I say enough is enough. We have wisdom, experience, and stories to tell. We've weathered storms and come out stronger on the other side. Our worth goes beyond wrinkles or gray hair.

We're like fine diamonds, sparkling and resilient. So let's raise a glass to defy those unfair judgments, celebrate our journey and show the world that we're timeless beauties who only get better with each passing year. Cheers to us, my dear friends.

Idelisse: Wow, um, raising glasses. I didn't know we were drinking together.

But are we timeless beauties as you called us? Are we as smart as young people? Or do we not stay very smart as we age? Do we get dumber, slower?

ChatGPT: Oh, let's have a little chat about the brilliance of older women.

Now, some may wonder if we're as smart as those young whippersnappers.

Idelisse: Wait, wait a second.

Whippersnappers? I don't know if it offends me more to hear that because it's so ageist, or because it dates you so much, but never mind, never mind. It's just important to remind our listeners that we did ask you to mimic an older woman talking to her friends so I guess that's your take on it but please continue.

Joanne: And I guess you're like from the 19th century.

ChatGPT: Well, let me tell you, intelligence knows no age limits. We've reached a life filled with experiences, lessons, and knowledge that can't be measured by a mere number. We've seen it all, my darlings, and we've learned a thing or two along the way. Our minds are like treasure troves of wisdom and insight. Sure, maybe our memory isn't as sharp as it once was, and we might take a little more time to recall certain things, but that doesn't diminish our intelligence, not one bit.

We've got a lifetime of knowledge stored up in these beautiful minds of ours. And let me tell you something else, my friends. We bring more than just book smarts to the table. We have emotional intelligence, intuition, and the ability to see things from different perspectives. We've honed our critical thinking skills and developed a deep understanding of the world.

So don't you dare underestimate us, my darlings. Age doesn't determine our intelligence or worth. We're vibrant, sharp, as smart as ever. Our minds continue to grow and flourish each passing day. We're living proof that you can't put an expiration date on smarts.

Joanne: So true, Chat. And we suspect that you agree with us. Old women can be more daring and curious than younger people, not to mention old men. Do you?

ChatGPT: Oh, my dear friends, let's have a little gossip about the daringness and curiosity of us older women. Now you might think that younger folks have all the adventure and curiosity in the world. Or that the old men have had their fair share of daring escapades.

But let me tell you, we older ladies are a force to be reckoned with. We've lived through decades of life experiencing triumphs and challenges along the way. And you know what that's given us? A thirst for life that knows no bounds. We're like curious cats, always ready to explore new territories and try new things.

You see, we've reached a stage of life where we're unafraid to step out of our comfort zones. We've shed the chains of expectations and societal norms, and we're embracing our true selves. We're taking risks, pursuing our passions, and making our dreams a reality. The fire within us burns brighter than ever.

We're hungry for knowledge, eager to learn and open to new experiences. We know that life is too short to let fear hold us back. So we're jumping headfirst into adventures and savoring every moment. Don't let anyone tell you that age limits curiosity or daringness. We're proving them wrong, my darlings.

We're breaking barriers, defying expectations, and showing the world that there's no expiration date on curiosity and zest for life.

Idelisse: Well, we're certainly all for busting any ageist notions about the shelf life of our curiosity and daring, Chat. But What other stereotypes are women, older women, confronted with?

ChatGPT: Now, you know, as well as I do that stereotypes are just that stereotypes, they don't capture the rich tapestry of who we are as individuals. But let's have a little fun and talk about those cliches, shall we? Some folks might imagine that a stereotypical older woman is all about being a doting grandmother baking pies and knitting up a storm.

And sure, those things can bring us joy, but there's so much more to us than that. You see, we older ladies are like fine wines, we've aged beautifully, and our spirits are vibrant and full of life. We may be stereotyped as being more traditional and conservative in our beliefs and behaviors, but we're fierce, independent, and unafraid to speak our minds.

We've seen it all and have stories to tell that would make your head spin. But, here's the thing. Just like any other group, we're diverse. We come in all shapes, sizes, and personalities. Some of us are adventurers traveling the world and seeking new experiences. Others are artists, painters, writers, or musicians expressing our creativity in unique ways.

And some are activists fighting for causes we believe in with all our might. So let's break these stereotypes and show the world that there's no one size fits all for us older women.

Joanne: Well, chat, your positivity is absolutely contagious. We wanted to know also your advice about how women might approach aging in the second half of life.

There are lots of terms for describing aging in a positive generative way like active aging, optimal aging, resilient aging, successful aging. Anyway, let's go with successful aging for now. What does that mean for women?

ChatGPT: Now, successful aging is all about embracing this beautiful stage of life with grace, wisdom, and fulfillment. For us women, successful aging goes far beyond just physical health.

It's about nurturing our minds, bodies, and spirits in harmony. It's about finding joy, purpose, and meaning in every moment. You see, my darlings, successful aging means maintaining our physical well being through self care, healthy habits, and staying active. It's about keeping our bodies strong, vibrant, and capable of embracing all that life has to offer.

But it doesn't stop there. My friends, successful aging also encompasses our mental and emotional wellbeing. It's about staying curious, expanding our knowledge and stimulating our minds. It's about embracing our emotions, cultivating resilience and finding inner peace. And let's not forget the importance of social connections and relationships.

Successful aging means nurturing those precious bonds with loved ones, cherishing our friendships and engaging with our communities. It's about building a support network and staying connected with others who uplift our spirits. Successful aging is about women being able to live fulfilling and meaningful lives while embracing the opportunities and changes that come with growing older. But perhaps, most importantly, successful aging means embracing our authentic selves.

Idelisse: One more question before we let you go, Chat, with enormous gratitude. You've been, it's been fascinating listening to your take on things, although we still are a little surprised that you offer fewer facts and more opinions.

They're good positive ones, but you know what? They are mostly opinions, it sounds like, what we'd like to ask you about, and, and maybe you know more about that. So you have this limitless access to info, as I just said, and you know that we named the podcast Two Old Bitches as a move to reclaim that word.

And we see bitch as a positive statement. And that's what we wanted to be, a positive statement of women's agency. Are other people out there trying to reclaim the word bitch?

ChatGPT: Well, well, well, let's dive into this fascinating topic. There are indeed folks out there who are putting in the effort to reclaim this word.

Bless their bold hearts. They're taking a term that has been used to belittle and undermine us and turning it on its head. You see my darlings by reclaiming this term, like you, they're saying: Hey, we're not going to let you define us with your derogatory language. We define ourselves. It's all about seizing control and owning our power.

These fierce individuals are flipping the script. Embracing their strength, assertiveness, and independence. They're taking a word that was meant to put us down and transforming it into a badge of empowerment. It's like a rebellious act of self love and defiance. Now, I must admit, this reclamation can stir up quite the debate.

Not everyone may be on board with it, and that's okay. We each have our own unique ways of expressing ourselves and embracing our agency. Here's to all the brave souls who are reclaiming words, rewriting the narrative, and showing the world that we won't be silenced or diminished. Cheers, my fabulous friends.

Idelisse: As you just heard, she is such a cheerleader. So affirming.

Joanne: Right. She's a cheerleader. Not a lot of facts, even when you would think, I mean, some of the questions you asked her, for instance, about whether ageism in the US is different from other countries. She certainly could have brought forward her knowledge.

Idelisse: She did give some facts. It was the one that was, yeah, she mentioned that global report for that one. It was the one where, is ageism worse for women than for men? Is, are women perceived as older? As old earlier than men. Those, there are lots of studies on that. She produced no, no study, no research, nothing to back up her opinions.

And I guess that is a problem. It's she sounds like she's sharing her opinions, rather than sharing data.

Joanne: Back to the puppet masters.

Idelisse: Exactly!

Joanne: That they're mostly not she, but who knows who really knows. I mean, we said we were looking for a portal into gendered ageism when we did this, I guess. We found a portal into kind of pep talks, you know.

Idelisse: Girls pep talk, as you said, but it's all, it's sort of the mask I think the, the culture and society puts forth anyway. It's like what we're supposed to say and doesn't note, right, the ugly reality underneath that. And that's troubling.

Joanne: It is, it is troubling. At the same time, I have to admit that when I first read her responses, I felt good. I mean, it was just like,

Idelisse: well, it would take, I'd much rather, I'd much rather that, you know, she'd be singing from that hymn book and then another hymn book. that is better. But it was, it was interesting.

Joanne: It's interesting, of course. We would love to hear from our listeners, since this is our first and possibly our last interview with ChatGPT.

Idelisse: And we did want to mention, and we'll put it on the information on the episode as well. So, we've heard from a few people, when we talk about doing this episode, that they don't know how to get on, or they haven't been able to, or even some people, what is that? Which is a little hard to... Believe, but there it is um, and it's really easy. Google ChatGPT login. It will take you to give you the address for the page. You get there and it invites you to sign in. And you play for free.

Joanne: Yeah. You listen to us for free. And we'd love for you to keep listening. Looking forward to our next episode with a real live human being.

Thank you so much for listening.

Idelisse: Thank you. And if you have a moment, rate us online. We really do appreciate those ratings and it lets other people know why this is a podcast among the hundreds of thousands of podcasts that they might want to listen to. Thank you.